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Thread: USA vs USSR military technology by the end of the Cold War

  1. #1
    SENIOR MEMBER ChineseTiger1986's Avatar

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    USA vs USSR military technology by the end of the Cold War



    Not sure if this topic is allowed here, but it is hot topic in many Chinese military forums, and there are a lot of supporters for USSR.

    How about we compare the navy/air force/land army/nuclear weapon for these two Superpowers?

    Here is my opinion.

    Aircraft Carrier: USA
    Nuclear Sub: Not Sure
    ICBM/SLBM: USA
    Nuclear Warhead: USA
    Aircraft: Not Sure
    Bomber: Not Sure
    Cruiser/DDG: USA

    It will be interesting to see you guys' opinion.

  2. #2
    MODERATOR canadian icehole's Avatar

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    Are we talking about numbers and or capabilities? Maybe it would be better to break down your list even further and make a table comparing both countries. For example, strategic bombers, interceptors, short-range missiles, attack submarine (diesel/nuclear), etc...

  3. #3
    PROFESSIONALS Martin's Avatar

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    Regarding ICBMs, the USSR had the SS-18 Satan.

    The Chinese DF-41 is a 10-MIRV solid-fueled ICBM.

    The Russian SS-18 is a 10-MIRV liquid-fueled ICBM. However, its nickname "Satan" is a lot cooler.

    ----------

    Return of Satan | RT USA

    "Return of Satan
    Published time: June 13, 2009 01:31
    Edited time: May 15, 2010 05:01


    Nuclear ballistic missile SS-18 Satan launched

    The Russian military plans to introduce a up-to-date analogue of the most powerful ballistic missile of all time - the RS-20, or SS-18 Satan by NATO classification.

    On June 10, the commander of Russia’s Strategic Missile Forces, General-Colonel Nikolay Solovtsov, told journalists that Russia is again interested in the kind of heavy ballistic missiles that once formed the basis of national nuclear arms forces.

    The announcement came as both Russia and the US were striving to find convincing arguments for talks on further reductions in strategic nuclear forces, scheduled for later this year.

    The RS-20 (SS-18 Satan) remains the ultimate ballistic missile. There is no anti-missile defense system to counter it. It can carry 10 warheads (550 kiloton each) a distance of more than 11,000 kilometers.

    It can be launched under almost any conditions, from an atmospheric temperature of -50 C to +50C.

    Ballistic missile SS-18 Satan

    Country: Russian Federation
    Alternate Name: RS-20B
    Class: ICBM
    Basing: Silo based
    Length: 34.30 m
    Diameter: 3.00 m
    Launch Weight: 217,000 kg
    Payload: 10 MIRV warheads
    Warhead: Nuclear 500 to 550 kT
    Propulsion: 2-stage liquid
    Range: 15,000 km
    it can sidewind up to 90 km/h and can function even under nuclear assault.

    Only a powerful direct hit could destroy any of its warheads. But a counter-missile capable of intercepting the RS-20, once the warheads have been fired, has yet to be produced.

    Its reliability has been confirmed by dozens of successful launches, including those of satellites into orbit.

    It is no wonder then that that US had a special policy back in 1990s of destroying as many RS-20s as possible.

    In 1990 the Soviet Union had more than 3,000 warheads on SS-20 missiles.


    RS-20 (SS-18 Satan) ballistic missile

    But under the terms of the START-1 (1991) and START-2 (1993) nuclear arms reduction treaties between Russia and the US, this class of missile was significantly reduced. Currently there are 680 warheads in just two nuclear ballistic missile formations in Siberia.

    It is no secret that in recent years Russia has been spending a great deal developing the seaborne nuclear missile, Bulava, and the ground-launched ballistic missiles, Topol and Topol-M. However, details on the development of a new heavy long-range ballistic missile have been sporadic and vague, probably because such information remained strictly confidential.

    The reason for making such plans public now is probably linked to next month’s meeting between Presidents Obama and Medvedev in Russia, where the question of nuclear arms reduction will be on the table.

    When considering its possible future wars, the US military command does not factor in strategic nuclear arms. So, the American administration is proposing a radical cut in the number of nuclear warheads, limiting them to 1,000 on each side.

    General-Colonel Nikolay Solovtsov says Russia needs a minimum of 1,500 warheads to guarantee national security, though he admits that it is “up to the leadership of the country to make decisions on the issue”.


    Empty dispensing warhead of SS-18 Satan

    In the wake of US President Barack Obama’s apparent back-pedaling on pre-election promises to re-consider the deployment of anti-ballistic missile systems in Eastern Europe, the Russian leadership feels free to take retaliatory steps.

    The working life of still-operational SS-20 missiles has just been prolonged to 30 years, which means they will remain on standby until 2016-2020, when they can be replaced with modern versions.

    The Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty between Russia and the US expires on December 5, 2009. So, should current efforts to make a new deal on nuclear arms fail, both parties will be free after that date to produce as many warheads as they consider necessary."
    Last edited by Martin; 08-19-2013 at 01:37 AM.
    Watch my J-15 Flying Shark video with 24,176 views at youtube.com/watch?v=xs1kEwckSto
    "China's J-20 stealth fighter" with 98,003 views at youtube.com/watch?v=1EBztMJBhAs

  4. #4
    SENIOR MEMBER ChineseTiger1986's Avatar

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    I feel they were evenly matched during the early 1980s, but towards the late 1980s the balance has shifted towards USA.

    USA got the superior technology such as the Trident II and W88 warhead, which are superior to their Soviet counterparts.

    PS, the US carrier strike group had started to arm with the Aegis defense, another unilateral advantage being added to the USN.

    I think maybe the Soviet economy got into trouble, thus they cannot follow the pace anymore.
    Last edited by ChineseTiger1986; 08-19-2013 at 01:40 AM.

  5. #5
    PROFESSIONALS Martin's Avatar

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    I feel they were evenly matched during the early 1980s, but towards the late 1980s the balance has shifted towards USA.

    USA got the superior technology such as the Trident II and W88 warhead, which are superior to their Soviet counterparts.

    PS, the US carrier strike group had started to arm with the Aegis defense, another unilateral advantage being added to the USN.

    I think maybe the Soviet economy got into trouble, thus they cannot follow the pace anymore.
    Original Post By ChineseTiger1986
    The USSR was outgunned technologically (e.g. five-axis machine tools, supercomputers, new stealth materials, advanced electronics like AESA radar components, etc.). For example, the USSR/Russia was never able to shrink their AESA radar to fit within a destroyer's hull.

    Also, the Russians need to work on their software skills. Aegis is a fusion of hardware and software.

    As another example, the Russians still have not shown any proof of transparent RAM on the cockpit canopy of the T-50/Pak Fa.

    The IRST on the T-50/Pak Fa is still protruding on the fuselage. I don't think Sukhoi has the technological capability to build an EODAS.
    Last edited by Martin; 08-19-2013 at 01:48 AM.
    Watch my J-15 Flying Shark video with 24,176 views at youtube.com/watch?v=xs1kEwckSto
    "China's J-20 stealth fighter" with 98,003 views at youtube.com/watch?v=1EBztMJBhAs

  6. #6
    SENIOR MEMBER ChineseTiger1986's Avatar

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    The USSR was outgunned technologically (e.g. five-axis machine tools, supercomputers, new stealth materials, advanced electronics like AESA radar components, etc.). For example, the USSR/Russia was never able to shrink their AESA radar to fit within a destroyer's hull.

    Also, the Russians need to work on their software skills. Aegis is a fusion of hardware and software.

    As another example, the Russians still have not shown any proof of transparent RAM on the cockpit canopy of the T-50/Pak Fa.

    The IRST on the T-50/Pak Fa is still protruding on the fuselage. I don't think Sukhoi has the technological capability to build an EODAS.
    Original Post By Martin
    Yeah, i am also interested how fair if the pre-Aegis era USN against the Red Soviet Navy?

    The Soviet monster such Kirov was designed to engage into a battle with the US carrier strike group as a lone wolf, but i assume this was the pre-Aegis US carrier strike group, but a such mission against the modern US strike group would be pretty much suicidal.

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    FULL MEMBER Fsjal's Avatar

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    In terms of nuclear tech, Russia is decades ahead of China, especially in missile tech. As for naval tech, Russia operates more heavier warships while China operates a number of stealthy warships. Russia also operates quiet nuclear subs, while China's nuclear subs are loud. In the air, Russia has more capable fighter jets than China and they also have more cargo planes.
    ChineseTiger1986 likes this.
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  8. #8
    SENIOR MEMBER ChineseTiger1986's Avatar

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    In terms of nuclear tech, Russia is decades ahead of China, especially in missile tech. As for naval tech, Russia operates more heavier warships while China operates a number of stealthy warships. Russia also operates quiet nuclear subs, while China's nuclear subs are loud. In the air, Russia has more capable fighter jets than China and they also have more cargo planes.
    Original Post By Fsjal
    Your comment just showed that you are an amateur military fan, it was valid a decade ago, but not now.

  9. #9
    PROFESSIONALS Martin's Avatar

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    In terms of nuclear tech, Russia is decades ahead of China, especially in missile tech. As for naval tech, Russia operates more heavier warships while China operates a number of stealthy warships. Russia also operates quiet nuclear subs, while China's nuclear subs are loud. In the air, Russia has more capable fighter jets than China and they also have more cargo planes.
    Original Post By Fsjal
    Post bullshit again and I'll ask one of the moderators to ban you

    Your claim is bullshit. For example, you claim Russia is ahead in missile tech. China built the world's first DF-21D ASBM with a maneuverable warhead.

    If you keep posting bullshit, I'll ask one of the moderators to ban you.

    ----------

    In my view, Russian military equipment is clearly inferior to Chinese.

    There are major problems in at least five critical areas concerning Russian military-industrial capability and the manufacture of important weapons.

    1) Cruise missiles - Six consecutive Klub missile-test failures.

    2) Ballistic missiles - 15-year Bulava SLBM program plagued by failures with no clue on how to fix them.

    3) Combat aircraft - "In February 2009, the Russian newspaper Kommersant reported that 200 of the 291 MiG-29s currently in service across all Russian air arms were unsafe and would have to be permanently grounded.[21] This action would remove from service about a third of Russia's total fighter force, some 650 aircraft."

    4) Shipbuilding - "The purchase of Mistral-class ships would be ''the most salient example of the deficiencies in the Russian defense industry,'' said Dmitri Trenin, a military analyst at the Carnegie Moscow Center, a policy research organization."

    5) Submarines - The quality of the engines for Russian Kilo submarines is suspect.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20091123/156944882.html

    "Russian submarine towed to port after engine malfunction

    01:4223/11/2009

    MOSCOW, November 23 (RIA Novosti) - A Russian diesel-electric submarine from the Black Sea Fleet is being towed to the port of Novorossiisk after suffering an engine malfunction during sea drills, a Black Sea Fleet official said.

    The Alrosa, a Kilo class diesel submarine, was on a training exercise in the Black Sea on Saturday when it reportedly experienced some problems with its jet propulsion system.

    "The submarine is being towed in a surfaced position to the port of Novorossiisk. Its arrival is expected on Monday. Experts will establish the cause of the malfunction there," the source said.

    A Russian Navy spokesman earlier said the situation on the submarine was under control and there was no danger to the crew.

    He also said the submarine would continue the drills after the problem is fixed.

    Alrosa, commissioned in 1990, is the only submarine in active service with the Black Sea Fleet. It is based at a Russian naval base in Sevastopol on Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula."
    Last edited by Martin; 08-19-2013 at 06:43 AM.
    Watch my J-15 Flying Shark video with 24,176 views at youtube.com/watch?v=xs1kEwckSto
    "China's J-20 stealth fighter" with 98,003 views at youtube.com/watch?v=1EBztMJBhAs

  10. #10
    SENIOR MEMBER ChineseTiger1986's Avatar

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    Post bullshit again and I'll ask one of the moderators to ban you

    Your claim is bullshit. For example, you claim Russia is ahead in missile tech. China built the world's first DF-21D ASBM with a maneuverable warhead.

    If you keep posting bullshit, I'll ask one of the moderators to ban you.
    Original Post By Martin
    I think he was just kidding.

    The ICBM/SLBM such as the DF-41 and JL-2A show that China is already ahead in this area.

    While for the nuclear sub, China hasn't deployed the new generation Type 095/096 yet, thus i would reserve my comment for that, i won't have any problem if people put Russia ahead of China in this area.

    China can build the Red Aegis such as the Type 052C/D, but Russia can't, it is quite obviously for the surface vessel capability.

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